Recruitment 101: How to Find (and Keep) Quality Candidates

Show Notes

Carl Lewis:
Welcome to The Connected Enterprise podcast. I’m Carl Lewis, your host from Vision33, and my guest is Nancy Drees. Nancy, welcome to the podcast.

Nancy Drees:
Thanks for having me.

Carl Lewis:    
Tell us about yourself. I know you've been in recruitment for a long time, and you worked for some large firms. Tell us about that and what you're doing these days.

Nancy Drees:
I’ve been in recruiting for about 25 years. I started my career on the staffing agency side. I worked for a large national staffing firm for over a decade and learned everything and anything I could about recruiting. When I left, I moved into the corporate world and spent about three and a half years with a startup in the mobile application development space and grew that company significantly—from about 25 employees to over 300. We expanded internationally; it was great.

After I left there, I started Vacaré Group, and we’ve been in business for just over 10 years. We're a consulting firm that primarily works with smaller businesses, startups, and some medium to large businesses without an internal recruiting infrastructure. For the larger companies, we might supplement their existing infrastructure, but primarily we function as that department for them.

Carl Lewis:
That was a great business to start because many small to midsized companies struggle with recruitment. Maybe somebody's wearing multiple hats—the owner, president, and/or the CEO are doing interviews, right?

Nancy Drees:
Yes.

Carl Lewis:
One CEO I know said, "If we want a bad employee, the first thing we should do is have me hire them."

Nancy Drees:
I see scenarios like that often—that’s usually why they call us.

Carl Lewis:
Exactly. But small businesses struggle to find quality candidates. What should they do to find the best people for their organizations?

Nancy Drees:
The biggest misconception—and mistake—most small businesses make when they decide to hire employees is thinking they can put a job posting out there, collect résumés, and then choose who they want to hire. 

It used to work that way, but it doesn't anymore. That's not how people find jobs. They’re networking and using digital platforms. So, when companies think about attracting quality candidates, they need to consider what these potential employees are seeing out there in terms of digital content. What’s on the company website? What’s going to compel them to investigate the company more?

And companies—especially small ones—need to leverage their existing employees. Their employees will be their biggest ambassadors. Their biggest cheerleaders. They love what they're doing. They work there for a reason. Studies show that employee referrals are one of the best sources of quality and long-term hires. But that's another piece that often goes by the wayside. Larger companies often have cool employee referral programs, which is an easy way to get high-quality people—but smaller companies don't think about that.

Then, once they get somebody interested, they need to ask themselves as they’re interviewing people, "What am I hiring for? Am I hiring for 10 out of 10 skills? Or am I looking at the person’s potential to grow with the company? Am I hiring the person and their potential, or am I hiring their résumé?" 

Smaller companies should change their mindset to ‘It's not just an application.’ Because most of the time, it's not. And I strongly recommend hiring a partner because those companies rarely have time to recruit, don’t know how, and don't have the infrastructure. Companies like mine can go out and direct source candidates and generate interest. That's what's lacking in just posting a job.

Carl Lewis:
I remember when I started this career about 25 years ago. I did other things before this, but when I started this career, I found the job in an ad in the newspaper.

Nancy Drees:
Oh, yeah.

Carl Lewis:
‘Consultant wanted.’ I answered that ad. It was one of my customers. I went to work for him and became a close friend. We worked together for seven years. They gave me their company, and I sold it to the company I work for today.

But I can't see that happening now. Which tools do you use if you’re job hunting today? Where do you start? Where do you go?

Nancy Drees:
The biggest tool that’s widely used across all demographics—meaning people coming out of college to 20-plus year folks—is LinkedIn. It used to be Monster, Dice, and Career Builder. Before that, like you said, the newspaper. I used to look for jobs in the newspaper too. Those days are gone.

Your LinkedIn profile is more important than your résumé. When I talk with candidates looking for advice on job searching and homing in on opportunities that will be the right fit for them or having recruiters find them, that's where I tell them to go.

Other considerations go back to demographics. Recent grads are finding jobs on TikTok, so they need to be on TikTok. But LinkedIn is the most prominent.

Carl Lewis:
I probably haven’t updated my LinkedIn profile in five years.

Nancy Drees:
Oh, Carl, you need to.

Carl Lewis:
I hear that all the time. Not much has changed, but there are nuances, I'm sure. But I still get people who contact me there. And I publish things. It’s just my profile that’s stale. 

Are candidates looking for jobs differently now than they did before the pandemic?

Nancy Drees:
Definitely. The pandemic changed pretty much everything about recruiting. Priorities have shifted because during the pandemic, everybody who could work remotely was. Then there was some hybrid remote/office stuff. Now, companies are saying maybe back in the office full-time.

Salary used to be important, but now people are looking for flexibility, a work-life balance, the ability to manage their time and salary, etc. Everybody wants to get paid, but salary has taken a backseat to things like not having to commute for an hour. So, the jobs with those benefits are the ones job seekers want.

People are still using LinkedIn, but there’s more networking than people just randomly applying for jobs. Some people, like engineering and enterprise sales folks, don't need to look. They sit back and wait for recruiters or hiring managers to come to them. And they can cherry-pick which ones to reply to.

Carl Lewis:
When people start job hunting and learning about companies they might want to work for, they're looking into culture. "Is this a place I want to work?" Because their website or LinkedIn rarely say how much they pay, right?

Nancy Drees:
Right.

Carl Lewis:
But you can read things like blogs from employees saying, "What a great place this is to work." If the company's smart, they have that. How else are people investigating companies?

Nancy Drees:
I agree about the website. It's so hard to get potential candidates interested, so if you want them on your website, you need to highlight the culture, the benefits of the culture, the mission, the challenges you’re solving, etc.

There are other sites, like Glassdoor, where current and past employees can rate their experience with the organization. On the candidate side, that’s become perceived as a reliable source, but I don't know how reliable it is. It’s like Yelp for recruiting. When you're not happy with something, you go to Yelp and give a bad review. It happens a lot on Glassdoor. Companies need to be aware of that and make sure it's not happening by promoting and living their culture and staying true to what that employee heard in the interview, during their onboarding, and throughout their time there. So, Glassdoor can be a huge benefit and endorsement or a huge detriment if they're not living their culture.

Carl Lewis:
It's one thing to read the website and see that the company says, "We're a great place to work." But do the employees think it's a great place to work?

Nancy Drees:
Yes.

Carl Lewis:
How important is what a company's customers think to a potential employee?

Nancy Drees:
What their customers think is major. I can relate it to my organization. When I interview candidates, I might mention, "I went to your website, and I see you're not working with X customer anymore. Why not?" And they better have a good story about that, because in the world of digital platforms and social media, candidates probably know somebody from that customer company. Everybody does backdoor references, and they want to know the real story behind the website. So it's very important, especially in certain disciplines, like sales and customer success. A salesperson doesn't want to hear that the customers weren't happy with something because they’ll look at that like, "It's going to be difficult for me to meet my quota and sell to other customers if that's how this customer feels."

Carl Lewis:
Yeah. A friend said, "Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to." So, they probably already know why that customer isn't with you anymore, and they're testing if you know the reason.

Nancy Drees:
Yes, exactly.

Carl Lewis:
If recruitment is hard, retention must be number two.

Nancy Drees:
Yes.

Carl Lewis:
What’s making employees stick?

Nancy Drees:
It starts literally from the first conversation—before they're an employee—with the hiring process and candidate experience. That sticks with them even after they join an organization. And even after you’ve hired them and you're super psyched about them, many things could make them leave. Thankfully, most of them are avoidable if you're on top of it.

Look at your onboarding process. When they're set free after their training, are they set up for success? Do they feel like they can do a good job? Are there growth opportunities? Say they’re a team lead. If they don’t see any upward mobility and a recruiter like me contacts them about a manager job, they’ll talk to me. Make sure there's upward mobility.

Then there are non-monetary things. People love recognition, and they should be recognized when they're doing a good job. They want their voices to be heard. They don't want to be micromanaged. That all ties back to culture. Is it a culture of learning and moving up? A culture of collaboration and people having a voice? That’s what people want.

Carl Lewis:
I've worked at Vision33 longer than anywhere else, and quite a while back, my wife got cancer. And how the organization responded to us in that moment, in those months, built loyalty in a way I had never experienced.

It came from the top, too. Their loyalty toward me, their expression of care for my wife, the cards from one of the best managers in the company. My wife still talks about it.

Nancy Drees:
Exactly.

Carl Lewis:
I would have to have her permission to leave Vision33.

Nancy Drees:
And jobs really are a family decision.

Carl Lewis:
Executives sometimes forget the role they play when an employee feels in touch with them and that they’re more than just one of the 500.

They know my name, my situation, my kids, my story. All of that is so critical. And if it's not part of an executive’s job description, it should be. I believe it matters in today's world.

Nancy Drees:
I agree.

Carl Lewis:
Nancy, what are the top five things you would encourage an organization to focus on to help them develop long-term employees?

Nancy Drees:
At the top of my list is leadership that will live and breathe the culture themselves because that becomes contagious within their teams. One bad leader, one poisonous hiring manager, negativity, and micromanaging all damage companies’ retention rates and their ability to hire. So, strong leadership is my number one.

The second is a culture of feedback. Whether it’s good, bad, or indifferent, people want to know. They don't want to guess if they're doing a good job. And they want to be recognized if they’re doing a good job, so provide ongoing feedback. I take 5-10 minutes to talk to every person every week. “Hey, how's it going? Are you having fun? Are you having challenges? How are you feeling?" That goes a long way. They always say, "It was great. Thanks so much for reaching out. I feel good."

And in this current climate, remote opportunities, flexibility, and work-life balance are things companies need to adopt if they can. They’ll have a difficult time if they don't. Then advancement and training opportunities, like I mentioned before.

Last, compensation. These other things can be great, and everybody can feel good, and we're doing a great job, but people want to get paid, and they want to get paid fairly. You need to know the market rates and be competitive. Otherwise, you’ll lose people.

Carl Lewis:
Is compensation more competitive than in the past? Or has it always been important?

Nancy Drees:
It depends on a lot of circumstances. And it’s partly a reflection of the type of company. I work a lot in climate tech and clean tech, and the mission sometimes trumps the compensation. Again, it needs to be fair compensation. But I see people making lateral moves from missions and industries they want to be part of. Five years ago, I couldn't get somebody to move if they weren't getting a 10-15% pay raise. People were more money motivated. And there's the other piece of, "If you want me to come to the office five days a week, I need X and Y. If I can work from home, I only need X," which makes sense. There's a cost to commuting.

Carl Lewis:
Absolutely. That was the advice I heard when I was younger: Never leave a job unless you’d get 10-15% more. Because otherwise, you're probably trading one problem for another. But I agree with you. There seems to be a culture of people moving laterally for the right opportunity and mission.

Nancy Drees:
My dad used to say, "Pay will make you happy for three months. If you don't like what you're doing, it won’t keep you happy long."

Carl Lewis:
My dad used to say, "Yes, son. A cheap car—you'll be happy with it for three months. And then it'll break, and you'll have to spend a little more." I turned that around from an employment perspective. A little more buys you a lot on that side.

Nancy Drees:
Definitely.

Carl Lewis:
Nancy, I have one last question. A friend is struggling in their industry. They need people to be together and resolve problems in real-time. And the challenge of virtual meetings is that everything gets scheduled versus walking across the hall and getting it done. So, they want people back in the office every day, and they're struggling to find anyone. Is this a challenge across all industries? As much as people want this work-life balance, are employers starting to say, "No, we have to have you here more"?

Nancy Drees:
Employers are saying that, and those employers are struggling to hire people. The days of every job being 100% remote are gone. And I hope we never have that again. Nobody should work 100% remotely—I don't know how healthy that is. Hybrid is the new normal, but some jobs require working on equipment or something like that, so remote is impossible.

But hybrid three days a week and collaboration tools to create that ‘water cooler effect’ can work. When my company is working remotely, we do office hours. Sometimes we don't even talk, but everybody is on Zoom, and we're working. We can say, "Hey, I'm doing this." It works. It wouldn’t work five days a week, and companies that want people in the office five days a week will have a much smaller pool of interested candidates. And there are jobs that can be done remotely, but if you don't look at that, you cut out other geographies that may be more budget-friendly and things like that. It's case by case, and you don't want to discriminate across an organization if one person must come in three days. Everybody should. But five days will be rough for any company. And maybe that'll change, but right now, not in my experience.

Carl Lewis:
It's a challenge for companies with a warehouse and an operations group that has to be there all day, every day. And then they have what appears to be an elite class that doesn't have to be there. It's the old salespeople-are-playing-golf-all-day thing.

And now, they feel like the whole organization is playing golf every day. I don't know that we've come to terms with that. That's just humanity, right?

Nancy Drees:
Right.

Carl Lewis:
And the inequity of, I decided to be in operations, and somebody else decided to be a salesperson, or an office worker, or whatever. Do companies struggle with that?

Nancy Drees:
Yes. And I advise companies on that part of it in those scenarios. I still don't think they’ll get a salesperson to come in five days a week, but if others physically have to be in the building five days a week to do their job because there's no other way, I think you need a hybrid schedule where others are also in the office. Because otherwise, you’ll end up with a bunch of disgruntled employees and a retention problem. It's tricky, but the overlying consideration is that you need to be fair and equitable across the organization. Because everybody, whether they're working in the warehouse or are the CEO, plays a part in making the company successful.

Carl Lewis:
I had a boss early in my days of being on a sales team who said, "Salespeople should have an outhouse for an office and a Cadillac for a car." He wanted them out there all the time.

He also said, "When they come to the office, I expect them to say hello to everyone because I want everyone to know they still work here and have a relationship with them." 

I think there's a responsibility we need to ask our flexible workers to extend to those who don't have that privilege.

Nancy Drees:
Exactly.

Carl Lewis:
And it seems we should look for ways we can extend that privilege to our more operational folks so they feel like they're being thought of. Right?

Nancy Drees:
Absolutely. And I see creativity in some of my clients in jobs like that. Like everyone works from home one day a week, and they do it on a rotating schedule. Creating that opportunity in those roles, if it doesn't already exist, is a way to make fairness happen.

Carl Lewis:
Nancy, these are great things for folks to think about. Tell us again your organization’s name and how people can find you.

Nancy Drees:
My company is Vacaré Group, V-A-C-A-R-E Group. They can visit us at vacaregroup.com or our LinkedIn profile. 

Carl Lewis:
I encourage listeners who don’t have an HR department and need help to contact Nancy. She’s a smaller organization, so you won’t get swallowed up by a big firm.

Nancy Drees:
That's the key. And we tailor it to their budget.

Carl Lewis:
It’s a great idea. I liked it from the moment I heard about it because I didn’t know there were smaller recruiting firms companies could work with.

So, thank you for having that idea, and thank you for joining us.

Nancy Drees:
I appreciate the opportunity, Carl.

Carl Lewis:
And to our guests out there, until we meet again—stay connected.